Hello, welcome to the Computer Mouse Conference 2021 web page ARCHIVE. Here you can watch the livestreams and scroll through the chatrooms from April 29th and April 30th. The chat, in the right panel, was open to all participants and attendees. The program for both days can be found at the bottom of this page. During the conference this page was only viewable to people with tickets, of which there were 305! The collaborative zine organized by Neta Bomani was simultaneously livestreamed on Thursday and Friday and was open to the public.

The Computer Mouse Conference (since 2019) is organized by Emma Rae Bruml and Ashley Jane Lewis and this year would not have been possible or nearly as fun if not for each of the following people: DeAndra Anthony, Mattie Barber-Bockelman, Ed Bear, David Bering-Porter, Neta Bomani, Ingrid Burrington, Sangmin Chae, Ryan Clarke, Billy Clark, Lori Emerson, Nabil Hassein, Kameelah Janan Rasheed, Shannon Mattern, Lauren Lee McCarthy, Charlton McIlwain, Cezar Mocan, Ayo Okunseinde, Mimi แปŒnแปฅแปha, Allison Parrish, Dorothy R. Santos, Mindy Seu, Daniel Shiffman, Cy X, and Jonathan Zong.


  HELLO!!!!!!!! Greetings from CultureHub :)
  Love the void
  whoa hi  hi:)
  It's a nice void.
  (musical chairs)
  ๐Ÿช‘       ๐Ÿช‘
  Greetings from Sweden! :)
  setting up chairs for the event
  Looking for Mouse Adaptors ๐Ÿˆ
  hi :]
  Who brought the cat? 
  oh that's me (emma s)
  just fed her so prob wont eat the mice
  hello :)
  i love mice
  Where's the RS232C port on an iPad?
  HIIIIII from Brooklyn!
  hi from a cold early morning Melbourne!
  Hello from Sydney!
  Hello from New Orleans!!11!!one!
  แ˜›โฬคแ•แท zoom zoom
  more ascii pls
  oh, hi.
  _)      jgs
  land acknowledgement! <3
  . ๏ฝก โ… * โ‹† โ‹ * โˆž * ๏ฝก * โˆž * โ‹ โ‹† * โ… ๏ฝก . so glad for all of us here as little cursors * โ‹ โ‹† * โ… ๏ฝก . ๏ฝก โ… * โ‹† โ‹ * โˆž * ๏ฝก * โˆž * โ‹ โ‹† * โ… ๏ฝก                       ________________________________________________         seeing โ€”โ€”โ€”โ€” haptic     something about countdowns in old movies         the seamlessness in easing animations feels deceptively beautiful                ______________Nabil Hassein's talk     [the cute taps and clicks suddenly feel a little sinister when they're being traced, followed]__________    space with no air: no medium to translate/transfer sound: no one hears your scream ___________ the mouse sees, feels your intentions. 
  Happy to be here!
  this isn't the end
  i wonder which mouse is mine down there...
  I had a mouse in my kitchen yesterday!
  wheel of death
  yes DeAndra :) yay sangmin :
  hi everyone <3
  yoo :--> its happening??
  !!!! hii everyone
  wattt. another hour?
  hi everyone!
  i am already a fan 
  hello!!!!! :^)
  Very clever setup, luv
  yes to spiralling! 
  Hello world!!.txt
  hello from the uk!
  Woo Neta! Woo Coding Train!
  this chat setup is so spectacular
  i went to the mouse conference .. it was great! (but clique-y) <- clicky? :D
  lolz :)
  Hi everyone! Dan Shiffman here!
  Hi Dan!!
  trick of the light :o
  Is it mouses or mice?
  meeses, I think.      mousse
  when sophie said "msmsmsmsms", she was telling us the secret plural for "mouse"
  this is such an excellent setup
  omg this is sooo coooool also ASHLEY this jumpsuit?!! ++++
  conference runs until 3hr 45min from now (2:15 PST / 5:15  PST) for those in different timezones :)
  hello ryan
  แ••( แ› )แ•—
  thats me im ryan hello
  ryan i'm so excited for your talk!
  blink twice if its really live! 
  spinning beachball! (of death) - beachball i knew it
  ^ what i learned in elementary school computer class
  :) (ryan still)    
  hi ry~ 
  hello <3
  Thanks to you two!!
  we're right on time :)
  spiraling vibesssssssss 
  this is a super relatable mood, sending solidarity & hugs
  +1 ~~
  hello. woah. i can talk anywhere!
  the overhead projector is totally chilllling me out
  genius (this presentation so far, loving it)
  oh am I going to cry 22 min in already? yes me too
  also yes
  word to the secchi disc for figure out visibility in a water column :+)
  I think a black and white beachball could be fun, if it was a thing
  this pinwheel/beachball is making me deeply emotional
  lol at the lockwood quote
  I like buffering when it tells you the precentage of buffered-ness (even if it's a fake number). can't deal with the spinny wheel bc it could be infinite. 
  --I appreciate it when the computer is nice enough to lie to me about how long it'll take
  --or early web, where a photograph slowwwwwly emerged from top to bottom (i liked that too... emergence, waiting as pleasure and anticipation)
  yes this ^^^+1
  -----I remember reading comics online years ago and waiting patiently for the final panels to load
  --- this is fascinating; i always advocate for useful transparency when building loading state, rather than kind white lies haha
  ---appreciate the commitment to truth, but if the options are either "65% loaded"*  (*maybe, idk) or "u gotta wait but we don't know how long" pls lie to me!!
  ---- "65% loaded @ this speed, est. completion 5min" is the vibe imho
  Loading: ||||||||||||||||||||||||| (-28%)
  ^^^ lolll perfect
  That thrill when you get a 10% zoom-up all of a sudden!!
  that pause, very excellent <- delivery of words is so good here
  + what does the internet connection feel like? what are you, we, what am i connecting to? with? 
  + i am uncertain about the ambient (lacking in words rn) promise of the wait, the utopian (?) sensation of hesitance and waiting
  ooh! been looking forward to reading this book
  rest in peace space jam website +
  RIP space jamRIP
  oop! RIP space jam old website 
  dang  ok Talking Heads refneoco <3
  No ESC
  thank you Ingrid! +1
  wow thank you
  amazing, so much applause
  for real that was so moving
  i loved that!!!!!! thank you so much
  "something is happening" -the wheel
  clapclapclapclap for ingrid that was very emotional -cubeghost
  big claps ingrid!
  this is nabil, i'm here but probably won't say anything lol
  HI NABIL!!!!
  hi Nabil!! hiiii
  Clap clap!!
  Beautiful, Ingrid. <3 (Shannon)
  so good ingrid! <3
  Ingrid, that was incredible!!! (cezar)
            (thank you for this Ingrid)
  Thank you Ingrid!
  Nicccccce Ingrid (ayo)
  Incredible work Ingrid! I can't say enough how much I resonate with your words <3 - Ashley Jane Lewis 
  Great presentation Ingrid!! -dusk
  Seriously incredible presentation/piece
  Can't wait to watch this again!
  That was amazing, Ingrid! (DBP)
  I'm obsessed w this chat function btw
  Isn't it great? ^ Emma built it. She's amazing. - Ashley Jane Lewis 
  ^^yes I was just thinking I love how you have to actively scroll to keep up (rachel)
  a visible manifestation of internet "presence"
  ^^ + scrolling "back" "up" to "earlier"/older messages, flattened time travel
  ^^ also love how new messages can be added up at the top. finding a new message where i've already read feels like finding a secret
  Hey all! Reminder you can respond to the talks and the question "What does the mouse see?" by tweeting @themousesees. -- Dan
  ^ by when??
  Hi Ingrid here sorry I was late my dog didn't want to go for a walk, but was nervous about my presentation anyway so maybe good I missed it (sorry I made people cry!!)
  "No historical event is intrinsically tragic"
                              emplotment so important                                 
              birth of cleopatra
  great pyramid                          first computer
  of giza                                            mouse
  all kinds of lost time happening today. 
  just hit me that the mouse is older than me ... i don't know why that hit kinda hard
  oh man i definitely had a college professor do something like this timeline but it's blowing my mind again all the same
  not with the computer mouse but with something similarly modern
  Books Referenced: 
  The Creation of Patriachy  -Gerda Lerner
  Neocolonialism, the Last Stage of Imperialism by Kwame Nkrumah
  How Europe Underdeveloped Africa - Walter Rodney
  Unsettling the Coloniality of Being/Power/Truth/Freedom - Sylvia Wynter
  Black Marxism -Cedric Robinson
  Reflections on Trusting Trust: https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~rdriley/487/papers/Thompson_1984_ReflectionsonTrustingTrust.pdf 
  Nabil, can you post those titles? That went by very fast! +++
  yes! TY!++
  <3 def believe you
  Just reposting this for emphasis! Thanks for mentioning this Dan! We'll make reference to it in the next break as well 
  Hey all! Reminder you can respond to the talks and the question "What does the mouse see?" by tweeting @themousesees. -- Dan
  here is the going to stream Chat!!
  maybe has something to do w/ command line vs GUI
  OOH: touch mousing: back on Windows 2000 I could operate the Windows start menu faster than the interface was able to render the menus : I would move the pointer to where the app I wanted to click appeared, before it was visible.  This means it's important *not to move* interface elements around.  this expectation is violated by newer menu systems which try to anticipate what the user needs most today
  that's interesting ^ i heard of moving menu items around on purpose as a way to defeat mouselogging in the similar sense to keylogging, so an attacker doesn't know what the user is doing
  ^^reminds me of "user session monitoring" web services used ostenibly for the purposes of debugging- often they record just mouse coordinates over time and later project the actual interface underneath, often poorly
  just meditating on the concept of mouse-mouse interaction
  I do think about the fact that mouse space is rarely the same acutal physical space as the screen dimensions. Always the mapping. 
  ^ So true.  Interesting to think about degrees of mapping.  On the iPad, mapping is 1:1 (I think): the user taps the button by physically moving the finger to the perceived location of the item (more or less).  With a mouse there's a sort of scaling and transformation and rotation that the user needs to do.  With a Ball or Nipple, the user now has to navigate a differentiation (or is that integration) to predict the target.  always amusing to watch someone new learn a mouse.  it's hard!
  A while ago I switched frm using a mouse to a tablet/stylus -- it was a huge shift, but more significantly, w the tablet stylus, there is a square space that maps directly to your screens -- I almost forgot that that is invisible w an optical mouse b/c it's been so long -- i do wonder also how that works (the mapping) -- from a tehcnical perspective....is the map for an optical mouse...infinite?
  ooh, I like that thought! It reminds me of those moments when you have to "reset" your mapping because you run into a physical limitation (like coffee on your **physical** desk or keyboard tray). It does seem like it can be infinitely projected, but is inherently bounded? Like your square maybe? 
  Yeah, that seems right. With the mouse, the cursor will just stop at the edge of the monitor. With my tablet, you can keep moving the pen anywhere but it does nothing off the tablet...(and therefore the cursor also stops at the edge of the screen) Funny how it was really hard to make the change at first even though it's kind of hte same thing
  Have you all experienced having people control your screen? Where you both have cursors and are controlling independent mice? It's v. strange, like a remote multiplayer game. 
          L_____ remote controlling someone else's desktop/machine feels like hijacking/skinjacking(isThatAWord), the rapid mouse gestures to "find" their mouse feels surreal
  skinjacking is a great and terrifying word. 
      + ^ something about the gesture, performance of navigating with mouse.. is the mouse a wand?
  conversely, the use of a mouse/keyboard combination for a 3D game is infiinitely more 'spatial' than the 1:1 of the tabelt - where those games are unplayable - the mouse enables a dimensionality that the literal 'flatness' of the tablet interface does not
  ^ Makes me wonder if there's a device *beyond* a mouse which feels as unshackled by comparison as a mouse does to a joypad or tablet touch interface.  I keep buying putative devices but they never quite do it.  Logictech Cyberman 3D for example.  Nintendo power glove.  Sony Move Motion Controller.  Kinect Camera / Leap Motion (this is where I think the action is)
  ^ Leap/Kinect is fascinating I think because the ability for the user to determine the 'boundaries' of the interface take a different 'body effort' to discover vs a mouse/trackball where the the boundaries are quickly  perceivable - maybe i am expresisng this poorly  - hmmm - trackball feels 'infitinite' vs a mouse which feels limited by 'reaching distance' vs a Leap Motion which is harder to 'grasp' [so many bodily metaphors]
  |____ there exists a normative body in mouse use
  ^^^ upside down mouse, trackball? the atari basketball aracde game which uses them is as violently physical as the actual game! hahah - https://www.arcade-museum.com/game_detail.php?game_id=12745
  ^^ skin? but what is it about our/my longing for this kind of (technovisual?) touch
  is the "I am because iFeel" sentiment dangerous? the infinite as a given feels a little .. off
  Durer's emphasis on the primacy of the human hand becomes the near fetishized "pureness" of the white Apple mouse, wondrously curved, appropriately opaque/transparent, docile
  + i wonder when someone hovers over an image (with mouse in hand), are they touching it?
  ^^^ :o
    + to add to this, there seems to be, feels like there's a hidden kind of, lurking violence in the... matter-of-factness of the way the mouse/cursor can touch whatever we cannot, a kind of recklessness
  i feel Apple's insistence on nature imagery is a way to justify its expansionist, manifest destiny sort of .. mission to simulate the entire world
  people, animals are absent on these California school landscape wallpapers shot in perspectival view, and yet the organization of interface elements remains planimetric, in aerial view: some budding god complex
  ^^ interesting thought...i agree
  Lol: with the Logitech iFeel mouse (in a box somewhere in my cellar) you would feel the texture of the window edges and buttons as you mouse over them.
  ^ whoa !! something about the declaration of "iFeel" 
  Apple's throw gesture (with springs at the end) was a delightful revelation to me (iPhone 1).  It extends the metaphor of touch mapping of location and captures the idea of physical response and velocity and even momentum in a pleasing and useful way.  throwing is also possible with the mouse and mouse wheel, and together with velocity based scaling on the mouse violates the strict physical location mapping.  This also works with FPS mouse use and probably with Kinect style interfaces: allowing the user to operate with location and velocity at the same time on the same device.
  re: the quartered, checkered circles from the first talk - I have a buddy in projection, those were used to focus movie projectors. More sophisticated charts are used today. 
  ^^ i first encountered these markers by seeing them on "crash test dummies"
  ^ ah hmm, yeah that's in the spirit of the calibration marker thing too, like the skeumorphic metaphor here is the machine is putting something into focus?
  ^^ most interesting - the machine *couldn't* put itself into focus. It required human intervention using such charts :)
  thank you Nabil for your talk and references!!
  thank you Nabil!!
  thank you nabil!!! loved the talk!
  thank you nabil <3<3<3<3<3
  hi cezar!!
  hi, this is cezar -- i will be quietly here :).
  woo nabil!!!
  hi cezar!!!!!! 
  FASCINATING topic, luv it
  Thank you, Nabil! Brilliant work! (shannon)
  bliss! bliss! bliss!
  that sound...
  iconic!! ++
  so in love with this idea of using a desktop as a presentation space!
  ^ Emma was the first person I've seen using it :)
  ^^^ agree -- there's so much exciting stuff happening with "destop lectures" / destop performance, etc
  Shoutout to JODI for the OG desktop art film!!
  (watch it here: https://vimeo.com/4147868 ) +++!!!
  fascinating! thank you!
  another example, in zia anger's my first film
  I didn't quite catch this -- will these talks be available afterwards? 
  To be decided ^ we will be working after conference on distributing materials (erb & ajl)
  Please, make it so ^
  Cool, thanks. Yeah, agreed that it would be great for these talks to get more circulation!
  Wow now I wish someone was capturing the live performance of this chat...
  honestly so torn between 1. the chat's live writing being captured on video, 2. the chat's final state being preserved, and 3. the chat being totally ephemeral and disappearing after the conference (in terms of preference)
          (i want to focus on the talk but theres so much wonderful discussion happening in these lines) ^^^^ yes re: #3
  +1 ^
  hi from teresa cruz
  Really interesting how this picture is so different from traditional landscape images (thinking of line Renaissance and 18th C. landscape images) though in the compete emptiness of the foreground!
  ^^totally, so interesting how perspective functions (or doesnt) in these diff landscapes. Bliss = no foreground, 1 pt persective, then the rocks in lake image on top left of desktop now is total classical perspective w vanishing point
  ooh ooh, makes me think maybe because stuff (shortcut icons, windows) are supposed to be layered on top? reminds me of a video i saw recently that mentioned the sort of art that's created to be the backdrop for like, lego set photos
  yes, totally, can't have cows in the background of the windows landscape because they can't compete with desktop 
  this has me thinking of my QQ penguin that'd live on/in/?? my desktop โ€” perspectives flattened/complicated
  Now I want to make cow icons on my landscape desktop.  I remember a 1990s desktop as a tree and you could skin your folders as apples to layer on top. 
  desktop as a semi-physical space to decorate/fill in... love it
  microsoft bob ;_;
  As a Californian, I've always though it was funny/sad that there are only 3 months a year those hills would be green.
  and now they have vine yards on them, right? 
  ^ I think so! IIRC, they used to before as well, and it was actually a grape pest in the 90s that allowed that field to be so empty when the photo was taken. (cezar)
  fascinating! also surprising they took the poles down hihi(andreea)
  nice to meet you, Cezar, this is such a freaking cool subject, and take on an ubiquitous presence of our lives:)
  ^ wow! 
  check out this interactive, 3d, infinite bliss: https://truekvlt.itch.io/in
  @nabil i know this is way later, but I really liked the thought "pre-capitalist history as a way to help imagine/work on a post-capitalist future"
  i dont know why, but i like seeing all these photos with nothing but a drop-shadow + small border. Not "in an app" frame. Maybe because I am so used to seeing these paintings in a wooden/brass frame.
  ^^same! I first saw this approach to presentation at Theorizing the Web conference a couple years back, Brian Justie does fantastic layered-image style conf. presentations. 
  whoa ^ hm something i'm a bit worried of/wary about is the way these windows are so wonderfully beautiful, minimal in their simplicity, has me a bit scared that I can only use Apple products because it's all so fine tuned and.. feels like a monism, like a James Turrell piece or something
  !!!!!!!!!! LINUX TIME aaah yes. i'd like to customize things and patch it up myself
  embrace your inner rebellious teenager and try linux! :)
  Thinking now about how many/most of the OS background photos are California images (yosemite, sierra, even Bliss for Windows). Real California Ideology / California supremacy / Manifest destiny vibes, maybe??
  ^^ _**yes**_
  Manifest Destiny for California based tech cos?
  > do distributions of windows and other OS across the world have the same backgrounds? Or do they change it based on where they are selling it?
  hi (person below), ++ this has me thinking untamed wilderness in the context of Apple is infinite whitespace on the web = generous whitespace in paper, it's so wasteful
  the idea of the "untamed wilderness" as a tool of colonialism(?) especially egregious when remembering that the people often displaced from that land have always stewarded and maintained "nature" 
  screen shape = frame, monitor โ€” how does it compare with a TV?
  oo thank you person below!
  Anne Friedberg's work is helpful for thinking about this ^^
  TVs totally fucked these days in terms of frame dimensions -- confusion, mixed genre, diff display speed, I like the chaos.
  do you like clunky chonky TV monitors? or is it all streaming services rn
  Thinking about the phone screen as a space of "portrait orientation" vs the computer which is "landcape". Putting Bliss or Sierra on yr phone lock screen seems wrong.. Screen shape as content guide.
  ^^ also makes me think about using an external monitor and the space the mouse has to traverse from one screen to the nextx
  ๐Ÿ Is the cursor part of the mouse? Does the mouse see our screen? I remember someone, maybe Kyle MacDonald, who tweeted a ~25 pixel screenshot of the area around the mouse whenever it clicked on something...
  Thinking about how the 3 dimensionality of landscape photos and the "largeness" of the space give a hint towards the idea of infinite cyberspace, vs say the flat color "desktop" 
  ^^ also reassures person using this tech that it's natural โ€” the simulation/sign of Outside as enough to be real
  interesting to see Apple include a full black background โ€” all the more sleek and polished 
  tbh there are likely many valid cosmologies/reactions to a default desktop image using a landscape. there's something interesting about the placedness a californian landscape gives a thing (sort of) designed in that place (but also trouble in erasing the complexity)
  THANK YOU omg thank you thank you
  thank u cez  
  thank you cezar!! -nabil
  that was so great, thanks everyone!
  "mechanisms of stripping images from original contexts..."
  Great job cezar!! -Dan
  The zine is down briefly
  it'll bfc =e back up soon, Neta is restarting her computer --DanS
  thank you Cezar!!Thank you Cezar!
  I'm next I think aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa --DanS
  Great talk!!
  incredible presentation cezar!!! -cubeghost
  ^ thanks y'all <3 (c)
  Loved it@!!
  all senses are touch
  Cezar, that was fantatsic! (shannon)
  thank you cezar!!!!
  Get those  mouses/mices moving between here, twitter and the zine.
  (mouses +)                  
    is using a mouse a handshake with your computer??
    > i shake my mouse to wake up my computer, now that i think of it, seems a teensy bit violent. touchpad seems more friendly
  -but in the end, a touchpad harms the body more? 
  # impromptou mouse poll 
  how many people are using a mouse right now?: Xxxxxxxx
  how many people are not using a mouse?: xxxxxx
  how many people are not using a mouse but wish they were?:x xxxx
  how many people here have never used a mouse?:
  how many people wish they were a mouse?: x
  how many people have used your mouse? 3, just me
  What mouse are you using? 
  |____ |
  |        |
  |        |
  do you say "can i drive" when you use someone's mouse in their presence? ๐Ÿ˜ฌ (i have)
  i think i've probably said this, but only at work / in coding classes w/ pair programming
  ("can i drive" is so cute haha) 
  ^much kinder than simply backseat driving
  I'm using a blue logitech optical wireless mouse
  Logitech trackman marble !! 
  i love my mouse, mostly because i got it after carpal tunnel symptoms and they are finally starting to abate a year later (combo mouse/wrist brace)
  would be Anker ergonomic Big Boss Mouse, the space flanking my trackpad could be decorated maybe?
  SwiftpointGT (https://www.swiftpoint.com) comes with me everywhere. Trackpad on the left.  And i'm sitting in front of a wacom cintiq.
  i'm using a trackpad on my laptop, BUT i have with me a cheap logitech mouse i got from target for the teardown workshop tomorrow :)
  ^sweeeet. i just fixed my mouse by cleaning a sensor and rewelding a tiny bit (thx to iFixit) and felt like a total genius
  ^ i cracked it open just to make sure i had the right screwdriver and already felt very excited about like, playing around with a mechanical object physically. want more of that in my life
  My family has never gotten rid of any of our mouses, still got'em from the '80s and the beauty of wired mice is...they work. Still. Thinking about what lasts. +1
  i still use my first microsoft intellimouse from 15 years ago! probably my only computer equipment that has lasted except my old videogame consoles
  ^ <3
  does anyone else have that silicone hand cushion for making the magic mouse more ergonomic?
  does anybody like mousepads
  ^I like the beach one with the sandbar wrist rest?? or the mini rug
  oh nice. gotta rest! (i wish i had a rug one, mine is plain)
  ^^ I'm talking about mousepads at 8 :)
  (do y'all have any tips for tech care? i'd like to treat my laptop to a self care day but idk where to start..)
  ~~~~~~~~~~ (tech care space?) ~~~~~
  Have you gone through and deleted things from your Downloads folder, lately? 
  Landscape posters are also another metaphor/artifact of the physical office
  ^ re: landscape posters โ€” Bliss has a kind of fluorescent lighting feel to it
  semiotics of the click UGHHHHH YESSS HAHAHAHAHH LETS GOOOOO im so excited this intro is wonderful i love . thank you 
  thankful for y'all emma and ashley!!!!
  <3 <3 <3 - Ashley 
  much love to all speakers & organizers & people makings this happen.
  i love the audio quality it sounds like npr. i hear the fan in the background
  ^^me too! I have a hearing impairment and deeply appreciate it
  i've heard that the old space jam website still exists, just like, with a /1996 at the end of the url or something. haven't actually checked for myself
  love the tune
  aaaaaaaaaaa i am so nervous! Dan
  ^ nervous is good, confirms you are human
  good luck
  (>'.')> <('.')> (>'.')> ~~dance time~~
  i am so excited for your talk Dan!
  (sorry) lol
  oh this already RULES
  dan you can relax it's already a 10/10 talk imo
  endorphins <<<<<<<<<<
  Wow deeply delightful already.
  A dog! 
  oh wow.oh wow. WOW
  Whoa! You walked through the text file!     <โ€” ++ !!!
  Shittttt all these presenters are so good at computers + presentations! I'm in awe
  could be a fun workshop -> recreating the engelbart mouse
  i've only been to a handful of virtual conferences during the pandemic but this is definitely the best one hands down. so creative in the format of the conference itself, but also in the variety of approches by presenters 
  ^^agree agree!
  Making heavy use of RunwayML AI tools for "green screening" -- Dan
  Dan, I'm loving the tension of the mouse buzzing near your head! Like what will happen!!
  omg this is so cooooool ikr
  i am so sorry but that early mouse has me thinking of this (from @dank.lloyd.wright) https://d2w9rnfcy7mm78.cloudfront.net/11716964/original_7b3f017f8cd72b33d1bf9e125849e309.png?1619255278?bc=0
  ^omggggg haha
  I love that birds are buzzing through the bushes in the background ... nature is alive
  a tech conference set outdoors is now something i very much want
        very much appreciate the shared text box chat, no signups, no usernames is great
  ^my zoom anxiety says thank you 
  Same but I'm obsessed w/ everyone in the chat and selfishly want to know who yall are - (same) <^ ++ same < yes:(
  > maybe post-conference eventbrite survey to share contact? or just a room in the coding train discord for us to connect?
  a zoom afterparty!
  too cute
  does anyone want to line all our cursors up for a group photo
  ~            |     |             ~  VERY CUTE LEMME GET INLINE
  ~     |    |      @     *     ~
  ~            ~                  ~
  ~     |          |      |        ~
  ~      |             |       |   ~ we look great <3
  what would a group high five look like here??
  o/\o <3 :โ€ข)
  :โ€ขD towards noseplexity
  โ€ข got your nose
  g2g be back later! thanks everyone
  oh nose! c u later
  ! stay safe!! take care
  ~tildes~ are such an important symbol these days~~
  ^^ ! 
  oh wait gotta hurry back for photo 
  gotta say that GAN generated mouse sequence reminds me of fungi timelapses lmao
  i love that we have different color cursors, like anonymous google docs personas
  Has anyone tried selecting all and deleting?? could be chaotic
  -> i have been archiving to local files to print out and read through
  ^ just copied mine, it would be so cool to compare our different versions ! like the version edit history log on wikipedia kind of 
  I'm gonna delete anything in between the tildes
  ^ thank you for mowing the lawn
  computers are more and more these days 
                      "machine learning .. AI dreams"
  Gloria...... would die for gloria.
  the mother of all demos was there for you.. but what about the father
  > i think there is gonna be "the dada of all demos" tomorrow? maybe?
  ^ dada of all demos is on https://complicatingthecomputermouse.net
  H a _there better_
  highly discriminating
  so Dan
  Mr CodingTrain surrounded by screenshots.. what is this amazing spectacular space
  love these extra Dans
  this conference is just so good (the range!)
  GANs are incredibly interesting
  I really appreciate being able to eat a pb&j and also be 
  at this conference.
  yes!! i'm working my way through an entire bag of goldfish
  ^yooo goldfish represent haven't even thought about those in like years
  training a GAN on goldfish images 
  a goldfish shaped mouse pleasant to the touch - to the taste 
  What an amazing interface aaaaaah
  urgh, Amazon twitter. :/ 
  double arg.
  I love the mouse that split in two
  omg there was a mouse that looked so comfy like a big rock
    <  3 (big heart)
  You can find all the code and references to the artworks here http://thecodingtrain.com/mouselearning -- Dan
  This is *gorgeous*, Dan
  ooooooh fashion mnist!
  i like the sound effect when you walk through the user interface barrier *fwoosh*
  ^ yeah!
  ^does anyone else find programming "language" cryptic as hell? 
  ^________ kind of
  THANK YOU DAN!!!!!!!!!! <3 oops too early. part III! hehe ha
  This makes me think of long-scale history, like the Mesazoic era, or when dinosaurs were there, but yes, cryptic. 
  ^___ if you havent .. OH WAIT oh shtttt
  thank you dan!!!!!! SUCH a cool presentation
  thank you for these interludes Dan 
  wow, amazing--thanks for this!!
  Char Stiles!! 
  I was just gonna bring up Wekinator - it let me "program" something way above my ability - to point to objects in a room and have them light up without actually having to encode the space. Wekinator is great
  something about sustainable, regenerative mousesteps (footsteps)
  (i just carried someones cursor to this indented spot hahah)
  i feel like a magician writing in p5.js sometimes... referring to mouseX and mouseY is like holding a laser and cats chasing the dot...trying to work out how to explain this <-- yes same :)++
  i'm gonna be teaching a class with p5.js this summer! excited to learn all about it
  oooo excited ! for you !! thats amazing
  Amazing work, Dan!!!
  I really needed this break down, thank you Dan.
  Love this talk it's perfectly choreographed!
  it's making my day to hear all of your feedback!! --Dan
  Oh my goodness, Dan! This was so so excellent! Thank you thank you thank you - Ashley Jane Lewis 
  I wonder if there are places where the mouse never goes. <-- i am thinking the same thing < where the cats live?? < where there are no crumbs
  ^^ speaking of crumbs: it's interesting to think about how, historically, esp w/ mechanical mice, crumbs (and dust and other debris) are so problematic for proper mouse functioning
  ^ thinking of hansel and gretel // oo yes
  Gloria Pickle is a star!!!!! she's my soulmate lol
  amazing video dan! honestly so much more cheerful after watching this video than i have been in quite a while! -nabil thank you nabil!!!! -Dan
  great energy thanks Dan and Gloria of the infinitely swaying tail
  So incredible Dan!! <3 Maya
  Joyful, tiny mice.
  markov chains <3 
  T H A N K S    D A N !!!!!! wonderful i love
  THANKS DAN!!! (ayo)
  :) :) :)
  Thank you Dan!! 
  absolutely freakin' incredible!!!!
  Wow, thank you so much Dan, this was wonderful!!!!!  cezar""
  this was so fun!!!!! and the credits!! 
  genuinely so so delightful
  that was amazing dan thank you!!!!!!
  I like this song.
  Wow!  This was fantastic!
  Gloria needs her own show
  i want to tune into this show every week
  The stand was in hte garden the whole time...๐Ÿ˜ฎ
  a mouthful or a mouseful...? <<<<< hello, yes
  nice!! lol
  the paths of mouse as handprints in caves, something we've known a long time 
  keep watching --> she explains why she calls it PRIMITIVE 
  OEB!! +++
  and chip!!
  ooh I wonder what Kameelah thinks of  text
  oh love samuel delany yesssss 
  chat as an editable quilt
  printed text being alive is such a cool thought, never really thought of it that way
  we love you kameelah!
  I have a huge lag on my livestream and the chat :-(
  oh no! i think it's glitching a little on my end, rn for me we're 886 lines deep
        - refresh helped me, but also sometimes 'blanked' because too many connections
  question: if i refresh, do i lose the chat history?
  ah yeah,, :โ€ข/
  i'm able to copy (but thank you!) but would miss the ability to scroll back thru the actual thing
  (question about lifecycle)
  is this related to "version control" somehow? like a wiki?  
  ^^hm yeah wondering the same. 
  -- for lagging audio, pause and play again has worked for me (seeeveral times)
  kameelah here: i love wikipedia's revision history!
  Kameelah just wanna say your introduction of who you are and what you are interested in was communicated so clearly, I appreicate you making it much easier to set expectations
  but not all versions are preserved (or should be preserved) 
  ^controversial view - why do you say not all should be preserved? <-- I think institutions have a responsibility to be transparent, however, there is something to be said about surveillance and the transparency of iterations for individuals -- for example, there are some things I do not think should be archived and saved --> I can see how this gets tricky right...re: orgs or people seeking to obscure responsibility ... however there should be space for communities to have privacy around there specific rituals and practices 
  ^okay I see  - I feel like this is contextual though... 
  >interesting how version history (and the public quality esp of wikipedia pages) relates to copyright and the ability to obscure problematic history; there are some orgs/individuals who want to ensure 'problematic texts' (namely old racist disney animations) end up in the public domain so that they cannot obscure that past, but ofc that also opens them up to other vulnerabilities and co-options.... but thinking through public domain is interesting
  ^^^ absolutely, I agree and this murkiness is what I am interested in - when does sharing your revisions become more a performance than an authentic engagement with the lifecycle (when you know you will publicly share revisions, how does this change what people strategically include ... vs. someone coming back later to find these iterations?)
  ^^ whoa yes, i mean i guess in some ways that's happening now? we didn't know the folks at internet archive would make waybackmachine, way back...
  ^^ YESSS 
  ^but doesn't version control work so that you cannot "curate"(so to speak) the iterations? 
  ^ yes - but I am thinking about folks who may have different motives around this curation process and they control that process versus an external tool that captures everything +
  ^totally - agreed - glad I asked original question because it's introducing paradigms I hadn't taken this point into consideration. 
  ^ I am loving this conversation and prompt -- secrecy and privacy is something I have been thinking about a lot re: archives and revision!
  >I mean I guess this all returns to transparency - and how curation, revision, preservation is fine as long as one underlines the positionality and motive behind these decisions
  ^i would hope (as a burgeoning preservationist) that preservation could come to encompass not just the thing being preserved but also the preservation metadata/history itself, and maybe that could come to encompass those revisions.... a full transparency dream..; but also the actions archives take or the mistakes they make in order to reflect properly the archive's own colonial history
  hoping to reconnect with whoever is in this thread --> please shoot me an email at kameelah.rasheed@gmail.com
  thank you kameelah - will reach out and this talk is incredible. 
  yes same! your music is so incredible and an excellent scape for these feelings/thoughts <3
  (^side note i love that yall invented threads just now) !! ++
  a testament to how well-designed this little chat box is, that when you tab in and hit enter, the cursor stays with your tab. makes threading like that so much easier!
  (i'm kind of watching this conversation above about version histories unfold but hh wanted to say i love the way this has been building)
  (the zine stream is back FYI!) < playing on my tv its great
    ^^ ++
  ^ just tweet @netabomani?
  in my dream of a world, we seek out each other in version histories, rather than being first
  ^^I love this
  what if we wrote something where every person took care of an article, such as "a" or "an" or "the"? small things, small building blocks
  i love it when people select all :'โ€ข)  +
  chasing the mouse .. aaaah yes. 
  yesssss x files <3
  ooh!!! activity!!!
  i looove this poem
  same! (me too)
  "how can we keep a text in a perpetual state of creation"
  i love transparency paper, A+ art tool
  love that it was an analog way of doing this <--- yeah me too
  hello! this mindy : ) hi mindy!!!
  love seeing the fellow mice in the bar below!
  whoa :0   
  oh is the number of mice the number of viewers? that's such a neat idea!
  there are 110 of you here!!! .heh heh wow!
  digging this
  so much
  i LOVE these tunes!!!!
  omg i love the birbs!!!!!
  birds aren't real
  wow!!!!! chaos birds. love them
  this is so cool
  brilliant sampling of a poem inside a poem!
  more praise for the chat: this is a very neat little mini example of how communities/communication/play springs up on the web, and how creative people are within constraints
  also chat if you are like me and have just been glued to one spot because this is awesome remember to stretch and hydrate! 
  ^and enjoy the musky stormy air :) open yo window (in NYC)
  ^ thank you for this! moving into the sunlight rn
  oh wow the emphasis here
  yooo please share your soundcloud/bandcamp/do you play live?
  KAMEELAH!!! TY TY TY TY!!!! <3<3<3<3<3<3<3
  Kameelah โ€” "collaborating with computer mouse" โ€” thank you so much for this!! <3
  copying the chat rn it's wonderful how thanks become gentle clouds before and after talks
  thank you Kameelah!
  amazing talk Kameelah, thank you!!
  thank you Kameelah! Great sounds I want moooore
  thank you!!!!!!
  thank you kameelah that was incredible!!!!<3
  Thank you!!!
  ^^ Brilliant, Kameelah! (shannon)
  we say mashallah!!!!-- YES MASHAALLAH!!!!
  +1 masha'allah!!! -nabil
  Now playing:\
  David Bering-Porter
  Semiotics of the Click
  ----40 grams of pressure for a click!!!!
  in what way does the computer see?
  "in pursuit of more pleasurable clicks" ~ my life online
  *~โ€ข~โ€ข~ (in celebration of) a thousand lines! of wonderful text!! 
  semiotic sonar (?) .. hm i wonder how far/played up the translation of such a small, "trite", quotidian interaction into a physical experience can be? ________ there's an immediacy to the click that's quite different from the hesitant, slow press of the space bar as I think what follows the next thought... 
  anyone clicking their mice right now?
  i have tourette syndrome, and i have one tic atm where i compulsively click the mouse so i'm def doing that a lot now!   (!)
  I had literally forgotten that "click" describes a sound!
  i like the subtle click below a macbook(older) trackpad
  Apple's guidance to presenters at WWDC: don't use 'click' use 'tap' when talking about the interaction with the phone screen.
  ^ the quote about paper's ability to Deflect where glass Reflects helps me understand why i prefer Clicking to Tapping
  oh brother... media theory. <3
  David, there's so much IN HERE, I need to read this! ++
  ^i also really want to read --- david's talk, and feel like there's so much overlap with the piece i wrote! - jz
  (read what? I was out? THIS talk? or another one)
  ( !! yeah, in a class we've been talking about the nature of haptics and touch ) 
  ^^ I think Dave Parisi is here somewhere :) Dave, you should chime in! 
  ^^ yes, I'm the OP here :) I really need to read the text of David's talk to fully appreciate its depth!
  Does click have an analog (lol) in the physical world?  We don't require this on-off commitment when interacting with physical objects : the experience is continuous
  ^ thinking about light switches๐Ÿ‘, the gesture of flicking them on and off? 
  the fluidity of radial/pie shaped (?) menus in FrameVR and the way hovering over options produces a light, clicking sound felt refreshing to me, like Apple's bamboo notification sound lol
  does moving a mouse wheel 'click'? <<< sort of, but it's FAKE >bahahahahaha, the click is amusing but not locked to a specific communication like moving a line   
  no wait where did that questions about clicks go
  - like does one prefer the "the lightbulb went off" or "that clicked" - synonymous or not? hmmm: https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/3d-man-thinking-idea-bulb-above-his-head-28738320.jpg 
  ^ this reminds me of a design book club meeting i was at yesterday where we talked about the metaphors describing the moment when ideas connect โ€” perhaps I could say "when ideas fell in place" 
  ^^ooooh love that - less extractive or something - or like less synonymous with "progress" --->>>slower. I don't like that when knowledge/ideas are making sense, being absorbed, falling into place you're implied as turning ON / as CLICKING ....like "progress" isn't machinic or linear 
  ^ yes, it sprawls โ€” (below, re: a sudden switch, maybe humans like the sudden apple falling on their head moment? it's like steps in calculus graphs (idk if this is right), where vertical lines signify a moment of infinity) โ€” "the click becomes a metric of desire"
  ^ (hi ok im back, i cant find an image but i can explain it!) here's a link { http://mathcentral.uregina.ca/QQ/database/QQ.09.10/h/giovanna1.1.gif } 
  the graph i'm thinking of is connected, like a staircase โ€” the vertical lines represent infinite acceleration โ€” let me draw this
  here's my way of explaining it:
  ^i like the phrase 'what's not clicking?' for 'what's not making sense?' it does give an idea of a sudden switch being turned on rather than something gradually occurring to someone. 
  ^true true
  my aunt from LI: "pass me the clicker" (tv remote)
  Neta's desktop is getting very crowded 
  I'm stunned at the ability for David to say the word click so many times without it losing meaning < !!! 
  ^^ I think this is partly his point though: it's such a polysemic term -- it means so many things, and often simultaneously `
  click data showing what a person has wanted, agreed with, chosen, reminds me of the idea that if you drop a book face down then it will land on the most read pages and you'll find the readers desires from it. 
  click through โ€” penetrative language
  Clicks are somewhat artificial : invented.  the actual experience at an electronic level is messy, and much technology and intepretation is required to turn a series of bounces and uncertainty into a concrete single phase change.
  ^^ there's so much interesting sound design that goes into engineering these sounds to capture all the affective dimensions he's talking about here 
  ^^ david touches on this in two amazing sentences too quickly - says that the voltage->binary mapping is reductionist (but useful), and ill try and find the second one *shrug* +1
  ^^ found it "the binary system of the root of digial technology is not necessarily connected to zeros and ones, but rather with the logical function of difference that is represented BY zeros and ones"
  ^^ david referenced flusser earlier -- i'm reminded of flusser's essay "why do typewriters go 'click'" -- clicking as stuttering rather than sliding 
  The Piano key is a forerunner of the mouse button: it converts user intention into an event.  A sophisticated combination of levers and pads is required that must have taken decades or centuries to develop, and supplanted prior mechanisms that lacked quality control, repeatability - the plucked string of a harp or lacked expressiveness - the harpsichord. @alexbbrown (I'll look for the material) 
  ^^ I want to read more about this! - who is this? lol tell me books to read!! - kameelah 
  ^^ Rachel Plotnick's The Push Button might be of interest :) 
  (thank you person above) (shannon)
  ^^ Didn't find what I was looking for but this is OK: https://web.archive.org/web/20170422183830/http://hendrix2.uoregon.edu/~dlivelyb/phys152/L16.html
  ^^ Kameela: I enjoyed these: plenty to think about: https://www.speech.kth.se/music/5_lectures/contents.html
  e.g. : function of the grand piano action:  https://www.speech.kth.se/music/5_lectures/askenflt/timing.html
  ^ !!! THANK YOU DAVID whoa.
  Useful information - Google super-duper didn't invent online advertising or metadata analysis. For more, see the history of DoubleClick.
  Thanks so much David!
  Thank you David! <3
  Thank you David!! (ayo)
  thank you so much!!!
  Love listening to this discussion! (Dan)
  Yes that's what i wanted to try to do! (be INSIDE the computer)
  Eventually I will get all the way there.
  hi dan! we must talk b/c i was going to try to learn everything you presented in order to gather mouse coordinate data but grew overwhelmed (and distracted) so i just collected them with a marker and acetate! -- i still want to think about some of the coding you explored -- will click through the links you shared before i bug you :-)
  ^^^^^^yes!!!! --Dan feel free to reach out any of the ways! (@shiffman on twitter or email) 
  ^^ thank you! <-- I might be a little slow to reply the next few weeks end of NYU semester, but the summer is near!
  Emma and Ashley should host a live talk show! or a podcast??? -- Dan ++++ ++
  lmao +1 would watch
  Really loved Kameelah sharing the layered texts like her father's Koran notes; crossing traditions also reminded me of talmudic text with nested commentaries ++ yes i also thought of the mishnah! >whoa just remembering the torah pointer 
  ^ yad (means hand) is a yad a mouse?
  ^ an actual tiny hand!!
  curious if other text-based liturgical traditions have this kind of pointer tool? ah like a diving rod? or A MAGIC WAND Ahahaha Cy is dope
  ^^ ahhhh this is so cool!
  who was the composer Kameelah mentioned who scattered ants around and used them as inspiration for a musical score? - Benjamin Patterson I believe THANK YOU!!!!! ใƒพ(๏ผ ^โˆ‡^๏ผ )ใƒŽ
  ^^ that's him! he was also a LIBRARIAN!!
  speaking of libraries we have a really nice work about him in the cybernetics library (sorry plug lol): https://www.librarything.com/work/book/147864485
  ^ohhh amazing thanks for sharing! Huge fan of cybernetics lib <3 
  ^^tyty <3<3
  ^^ please PLUG!!!
  hehe ok: cybernetics.social (site)
  ^ <3
  emma and ashley i hope y'all are eating. EAT FOOD
  this is prerecorded no?
  Kameelah great talk!!! Thank you (ayo)
  All of the talks thus far have been incredible! <3
  this event is excellent, thank you both for organizing
  +1 to eating (and hydration is extremely important) <3<3<3
  Kameelah idk if you're in here but if so โ€“ what do you like about Opusmodus specifically over other tools for algorithmic composition? 
  ^still here :) -- having no background in music, opusmodus actually made me learn about music fundamentals in a way that felt v v v easy in comparison to music learning attempts in the past -- there is something about it ...
  there's a program called OpenMusic that is kind of like a visual programming environment which i think works similarly to opusmodus? 
  ^^ NICE - looking it up now!
  only just skimmed but it seems to be similar to PureData and Max/MSP? 
  ^yup. max msp has something called the bach project that does similar stuff too, but from what i've seen openmusic and opusmodus are more closely linked (in terms of how it works with classical notation/music theory) i think? idk though.
  truly dgaf about classical notation lol
  ^ opusmodus is 175EURO, haven't purchased - watched tutorials, conference excerpts, and practice with their coding language - may purchase soon but wish they had a demo version
  ^ also some supercollider influence it seems
  ^ same more?
  Sonic Pi, foxdot, Chuck, Csound, Extempore, tidalcycles
  ios app store: see TextMusic app
  really want to thank the organizers for scheduling this in the evening (at least in ET) recognizing that not everyone is free during the day! (btw) +
  ^^ yes thank you all so so much. the conversation has been so nice and amazing and generative
  this chat is fantastic
  :) - Ashley 
  this is soo cool!!
  great talks everyone
  > a cat can have a little Logitech, as a treat
  mouse is often confined to a screen (or screens) and a wand is not. wand is somewhat more intimidating to me because it can point anywhere. its more of a blank canvas than a confined mouse.
  ^^ LOL yes -- pointing anywheere!
  ^^ This makes me think of that moment when you are sharing your screen and it isn't mirrored and you loose the mouse on the screen - and then magically it reappears! 
  Cy X - love the framing of this talk!
  ^^same <3
  omg, how come I haven't braided my mouse cord before (or any of my connecting cables? instead of trying to hide them or feel bad seeing them...)
  > it reminds me a bit of crocheting walkie-talkie antennae to disasssociate the device with positions of power and transform into tools for diffusing power
  Thank you so much Cy! for inspiring me to reintroduce intention
  Thank you Cy X!!
  thank you!!!
  (thank you! thinking of ways to be with my devices in a contemplative, loving way)
  most beautiful mouse i've seen, never imagined one looking or feeling like that <3
  thanks cy!
  Great work Cy!! --Dan
  really beautiful --ry
  <3 <3 
  (thinking of https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CeSbNyKWLKc/TrdNDz7eiXI/AAAAAAAABMY/GLaJ_7mhOKU/s1600/The+Littles.jpg)
  ^oh whoa had forgotten about these 
  Bagpuss and the Mouse Organ.
  "launchpad" โ€” technoscientific/industrial complex ? mousepad as roaming area, grazing --> magic mouse and magic trackpad profess that they are techwear, that they empower the person to manipulate data at large scales, even though they don't. 
  the directness describing computer mouse anthromorphized gives me a big grin
  rollermouse with a small rubber "brake" that applies more pressure when you click on a file that takes up more digital space
  imagining mouse hunger games where the competition is the outfits
  lmao mouse olympics. only the highest performing
  ok im getting more and more into this anthropology 
  HAHAHAHAH < :'โ€ข) 3
  tbh i wonder how many people are "backing up" the chat in their pasteboard lol++++
  We've seen SO Many people copy the chat tonight - Emma and Ashley 
  its history
  <3 - Ashley 
  ive been updating my text file hahaahha
  Love that! - Ashley 
  please PLS LMAO the ultimate big tech postracial utopia: the hand belongs to a lizard person
  i mean tbh i wouldn't mind being a reptilian or owning a glass mouse pad 
  ^ true tho
  ^also jsut really confusing to be equating earlier models of mice with cavemen 
  brb putting my computer mice in a tiny mouse dollhouse
  i cant help but think of the waifu mousepads i am s o r r y it opens up this whole other cultural dimension
  word to
  @ashley and @emma i think we might need to do some data analysis on this chat!
  + + +
  the mother of all chatrooms (ah ha ha ha!)
  + + +
  Hahah - Ashley 
  thank you so much!!!!!!
  THANK you shannon really enjoyed this
  TY SHANNON!!!!!!!!
  the connection of mice as biological models of people & digital models is so insightfullllll
  Even just the title sparks questions, which is great
  thank you shannon!
  Amazing Shannon!! Thank you (ayo) +1 (so great!)
  ^^ hi, ayo! (shannon)
  thank you Shannon <3
  shannon that was wondeful
  Great talk Shannon, my kids (ages 9 and 12) asked me the other day to buy some special "grip tape" for mice and I was bumfuzzled! Your talk has helped me understand their desires! --DanS
  ^^ I wouldn't have known such a thing existed until I researched this talk :) (shannon)
  Thanks, everyone - Shannon
  Playing now: 
  Charlton McIlwain 
  Can the Mouse See Race?
  black software is a triumph 
  "the computer mouse is fundamentally relational" 
  what would an anti-racist mouse be? (ill delete if this is an unfair question)
  thinking how interwoven these dynamics are in human technology. thinking how film/photography (white balancing etc etc) is rooted in white supremacy. not sure how you could make an actively anti-racist mouse. if anything, this talk sounds like a book or something needs to go down. -ry
  ^ ++
  my immediate thought was, the only way to have an anti-racist mouse is that the relation with the person using the mouse has to be anti-racist. that it cannot be embedded solely in the hardware but in the performative acts ++
  ^^ also inspired by similar questions being asked of AI. The answers often acknoweldge the ecological nature of tech. The hardware, the software, the infrastructure, representation within labor forces, institutionanl politics: white supremacy, or anti-racism, is embedded at all these levels 
  ^ + how to find the mouse in irl relations between people, not mass produced.. maybe instead of anthropomorphizing everything we could think in a language that considers animism?
  while some humans have chosen to have their ashes placed in the soil, what happens to mouses/mice that have been forgotten, what of all this tech? 
  rather than the designer who canonized its aesthetics, perhaps we should look to communities, groups
  in what ways is transparency (being able to see through the mouse's casing) an illusion?
  ^^ reminds me of all the cultural critique of the see-thru imacs in the late 90s? (early 00's?)
  ^^^ yes, also reminded of the portrayal of Ava in Ex Machina (https://cdn.geekwire.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/11041794_1629890323900771_6114247933468408002_n.png), the way the human brain is rendered
  amazing, ty! super interested in the book too tbh
  thank you!! was looking up the book hh
  thank you!!!!
  hey yall thank you for the simulatenously energizing and exhausting day, sending lots of love to the organizers, speakers, and chat! <3 see y'all tomorrow <3
  hope that this will be shared as a recording!!! 
  ^OMG yes pleeease i couldnt join earlier and am super sad to have missed so many incredible speakers.
  thank you all so much for this. much love <3, from the bottom of the chat <3
  <33333 nice sangmin :)
  Amazing work DeAndra and Sangmin!!!! YES!!! THANK YOU for all the work you've done to make this happen. :D
  ^^ yes, thank you!! 
  hi alll!! bye all :) i am so full and excittteeed!!!! - love, kameelah! <3
  letting people know who is saying shit is so much more awkward than saying it here lol, the presence is real
  no no thank you
  THANK YOU EMMA & ASHLEY <3 <3 <3 Thank you all speakers + chat participants this was incredible and NETA that zine it is amazing to see your process!!
  neta is the legend +++++1000000
  THANK YOU BOTH!!! <3 <3 <3
  thank you everyone- this was my first conference- incredible and inspiring <3-EH
  thank you both and massive shout out to the incredible neta!!!!! <3
  WOOHOO! Congrats, Ashley and Emma! AND OMG...NETA ~ AMAZING <3
  thank you so so much!!!! this was so fun, and i can't wait for tomorrow! <3, and Sangmin
  Ciao y'all see ya tomorrow
  the only good chatroom 
  gotta love how the schedule is a nod to that old school continuous feed paper! hello from chicago. >>>lee

Nature's Notifications by Ryan Clarke

Written contributions:

Connectivity of Touching:
Ali Na and Mindy Seu discuss the computer mouse as vulva

Pointing, Mutual Intelligibility, and the Seeing Subject in HCI

by Jonathan Zong


Please the read the CoC, linked below the livestream, before participating. 
Begin typing below AFTER 4PM EDT!

hiii y'all, i archived yesterday's chat, purple button that says "Thursday April 30th Chat Archive" below. welcome back! [erb]

The workshop was sold out by the time I got my ticket. Any chance it will happen again or shared recording? 
Yes the workshop is being recorded!!
Here's a photo from workshop: 

Sad Winky Emoji: only lucky people who got the sold out TEARDOWN workship ticket are enjoying the show right now (smashing mouses with bricks on Zoom).  The rest of us can relax with a cup of tea until 6pm. Kermit Meme ๐ŸชŸโ˜•๏ธ๐Ÿธ๐Ÿช‘

is there a link to the zoom or is it ticketed?
It's ticketed ๐ŸŽŸ and they sold out :(
I forgot it was eastern time D:

can we join the workshop in the web browser or just through zoom app?

hi everybody :) i only figured out i could use the chat by refreshing my page at like 7pm last night and it seemed too late to jump in but today! wooooo -- Galen (day 1 was unreal, thanks for all the talks!)
lets gooooo -ry

 absolutely. google wave-esque if you remember that
   rip google wave :( :( :(
^i saw a reddit thread today of 'things that were supposed to be the next big thing but flopped' and loads of people said google wave lol 
ascii art incoming

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  |_|\___|\__|___/  \__, |\___/ 

    ^    ^    ^    ^    ^  
   /t\  /o\  /n\  /a\  /l\ 


แ˜›โฬคแ•แท แ˜›โฬคแ•แท แ˜›โฬคแ•แท ......          
      .-"      "-.
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       |'./  -_'  .-.      |
       |      .-. '.-'   .-'
       '--..  '.'    .-  -.
            ""--..   '_'   :
                  ""--..   |
          the chees
holes in cheese says a lot that bataille couldnt

sistine who
      ,-:`   \;',`'-, 
    .'-;_,;    ':-;_,'.
   /;   '/       ,  _`.-\
  | '`. (`     /` ` \`|
  |:.  `\`-.    \_   / |
  |     (   `,     .`\ ;'|
   \     | .'         `-'/
    `.   ;/           .'
  jgs `'-._____.

(thank you e.r.b. for archiving the chat!!)

<--- is this where i will see the conference? yes

I had to refresh to see it, but here now, hiiii!

hi emma and ashley!!!f

Hi! - Ashley 

is there a twitter account specifically for the conference, or a hashtag if we wanna tweet about it?
 --> @themousesees (not sure the hashtag)
yay day 2!!

excited for this conference!! day 2 lets go!


I now have mouse entrails all over my desk
^^ same and now i know what haruspicy is so i can read them 
^^ ulgggggg me too ~~~x
^ beautiful image lol

the mouse wheel works well as a spinning top
^ you're so right!!! playing with it now

a mouse toast!

mouse entrails!

if ed bear is here i'd love to get the code that lets you "take pictures" with the mouse ๐Ÿ“ธ

ed shared these links for the mouse cam stuff:
as did a participant (apparently a lower-level approach):
>ed is trying to find code for controlling via usb 
thk u
---  here's a more modern project, not exactly what i remember looking at last month, but still looks legit: https://jorgegarciadev.gitlab.io/post/getting_images_form_an_optical_mouses_sensor/

Hey all, the zine stream is up you can say hi in the chat there too โœ‚๏ธ 

<3<3 yay neta! its epic.

you can tweet @themousesees too! <^dan

Thanks Ed the workshop was amazing!
major characters of mouse conference: engelbart, kittler, sonic the hedgehog
these are birds not mice
woo hoo ryan ! this video is astounding
I"m loving the animal crossing speech (?)

Lyre birds are incredible mimics.  "But do lyrebirds in the wild really mimic chainsaws? Yes, if you search the internet; no, if you read the literature." Hollis Taylor:  https://theconversation.com/lyrebirds-mimicking-chainsaws-fact-or-lie-22529
Also see http://www.flutelyrebird.com/index.html

animalese <3 
^ exactly what i thought of too
nice noise set, bird!
sup y'all

is the sinkhole footage in this film please god
hi friendo
uhh the fluidity of these trees movement is deeply unsettling
phew, wii store music to the rescue
wow wow wow wow wow 
the visceral reaction i had to this..
^ +1
^ +2
oh no
hard to comprehend this is real life. v visceral 

low battery eeeee

so many good sounds 

aeolian harp larp (you just stand outside on a windy day, humming loudly)<3

tbh I wasn't looking forward to sitting on my computer more today but this is exactly what I needed
same it feels amazing to just zone out with the sounds & viz
oh wow did not expect to cry at the computer mouse conference day 2
that was incredible!! so moving
just what the doctor ordered 
win + r
wooooo ryyy 
clap clap clapc
clap clap hi ry
wooowwwwww!!!! clap clap 
ohh that makes sense

awk question is stuff happening that isn't emma and ashley doing intros?

the ambient version worked amazingly with the zine making!!

captions. who needs 'em
absolute vs. referential 

cf: @Ingrid the beachball of death: I think I found the equation of a waiting mouse cursor: visit tixy.land and feed it the equation: x-=7,y-=7,abs(atan(x/y)/PI-t-1)*2&8>hypot(x,y)
^ nice
brain emoji

googling Gabrielle Hecht...
found the reference https://journal.culanth.org/index.php/ca/article/view/ca33.1.05/54

link to the paper:

Very interested in Ryan's perspective on the anthropocene as a concept
concept or reality?? 
_is_ it a reality on geological time scales? (not denying anthro-driven climate changes :) )
depends on who you ask. because there isnt a historical global signal many geoscientists argue if its too soon but personally i think we need to get past the idea of geology being non-neutral and address this moment in some way. im personally comfortable with 1950 nuke test to be the global signal but geologist love rocks more than radiation -ry
ty ry!+++

hearing boot up sounds from windows 95/xp always gives me this warm feeling of 'coming home' kinda nostalgia
/conversely, hearing sounds that remind me of my ringtone give me a weird sense of tension and terror, like a horrible feeling of being abruptly brought into the present .
is there anywhere we can rest that isn't so dangerously nostalgic?
^^ poetry
re:rest. im not sure! im thinking how (maybe just for me) rest/home is rooted in some learned safety and as time passes that connected just gets emboldened. i think as long we're aware of how we process these sound evocations, we wont get lost in the sauce so easily. 

  q: why isnt the bayou corne sinkhole footage included:(
a: incredibly true. it was definitely downloaded. unfortunately i couldnt find a complementary sounds from the windows 95/iOs audio bank and those were my personal restrictions for this. maybe in pt.2 ! -ry

i really wonder what the captions were 
thinking of this version as the untranslated bootleg copy from the flea market. ill post the captioned version soon! - ry
(i wonder how you feel about ASMR/hydraulic press video compilations on youtube, Ryan โ€” esp when it's tech being squished and smashed etc?)

big asmr since 2011.  a kind and ingeneous form to make human connection in our time  -ry 

(ah to add to my question above re: asmr/tech destruction videos, wonder if theres a connection to be drawn with the way apple products are both luxury and.. made disposable? +++ yes ! re: asmr, thank you :'โ€ข))

the inherent obsolescence of  steve job era apple products are quite cultish imo. just another form of dissonance we've all decided we're okay to some degree (including myself). willingly smashing it may be a form of release -ry 

<3333 chat fam :โ€ข)
chat loves you too Ryan!
thank you ryan <3 this was great
thank you!!!!!!
Thanks Ryan!!
thank you
thanks all :)))) -ry
shoutout to the chat!! <3 <3 - melanie h 
^^hi melanie!! you made it! <3 David h <3

my daughter is learning crochet right now

so so excited for Dorothy!
yay dorothy!
durational knitting-- iconic

i have a half finished scarf that is also a decade old hahah 

oo i just read that story! 

<3 a letter to my motherboard

  neta's placement of the pink mouse on the zine assembling stream right after Dorothy mentioned their sister's favorite color being pink was perfectly timed (this is neta...def did not plan that!!!!)

wow, that's incredible

ebb and flow of understanding <3

written/commit to paper maps can feel like an act of violence, though i am fascinated looking at them. does anyone have resources they like around maps and mapping?
i wonder if you've looked into writing about walking/strolls as modes of mapping? perhaps wandering isnt as aggressive as a document committed to/declared in print
             definitely more interested in walking and talking, embracing ephemerailty and change and uncertainty

aiga slightly covered this? maybe this is a different branch of thought https://eyeondesign.aiga.org/amid-land-disputes-a-graphic-shorthand-preserves-practices-of-secrecy-in-native-communities/
^ oo thank you for this
I know very little about these practicises, but other modes of mapping include Marshall Island stick charts, Ammassalik wooden maps, Weriyeng and Fanur navigation methods <- was just looking this up to remember the name, haha

You might be interested in some of the indigenous mapping resources from my mapping class (shannon): https://mappingthefield.wordsinspace.net/2021/portfolio/week-7-tuesday-march-2-other-cartographic-genealogies-spatial-ontologies/
^^ thank you !!
Thank you Dorothy! 
thank you Dorothy!! amazing duo of texts
Thank you for this talk Dorothy. I am left thinking about the assembly line poem, about the idea of these workers as particulalry "respectful" to authority. I'm also thinking about assembly languages as "low level" languages closest to the architecture. These relationships are truly oppressive/exploitative at multiple scales. 
from y2k to nonlinear time scales in software building practices..? thank you Dorothy +
yes technology outside the reach of capitalism <3

i sometimes find myself drawn to the excitement of the hype and spectacle of fast paced technological change which is by default taken as "progress (whatever that means)".. what does it take for people who may not be open to the way we approach these topics to consider these perspectives? 

The area was once known as "the valley of heart's delight" 
you inspired me to start a conversation with my mother who worked in a factory soldering when she was younger

thank you dorothy!! <3 clapclapclap
amazing thank you so much, maraming salamat dorothy uwu
clap clap clap clap clap!!!!!!!! <3 thank you

thank you dorothy!!!
thank you!!
Amazing talk! 
  thank you so much dorothy! 
ty dorothy!
ty dorothy! 

i think its really interesting the way the language we use to encourage "sustainability" is to start thinking about the life cycle of the object, rather than the life of the makers. It's powerful in a way to get people thinking about where the object is when it's not just directly in their use but it totally embeds the racism and exploitation in manufacturing into something aimed at solution. Thanks for reframing "life cycle" of the object!
(^ +++ yes, how can we maybe situate ourselves beyond object oriented relationships? more so about the bonds maybe..)
no longer will i be ok with this alienation i have with the tools that i rely on. gotta tinker
also a shout out to canadian poet Rita Wong -- a collection called Forage

Beautiful, Dorothy! Thank you!

emma's comment reminded me of a point Ed made in the teardown workshop, when you look at the components and see and feel how they are put together, you are connecting to the human that assembled that piece. dorothy brought out the personal and poetic relations in that as well.
^ oh ++
   ^ this is why i love looking at old tapestries at the metropolitan museum (or really anywhere) and    trying to imagine the space and smells the person who crafted it were experiencing at the time

wowww this is such a COOL shared chat (sry I just showed up via the coding train โ€“ dorothy's talk sounded so incredible I just HAD to join.
^ I also found it due to the Coding Train, they'll post up recordings of yesterday's stuff later I think.

Welcome! ^
how did heroized grand gestures of the silicon valley hustlepreneur become the default narrative that's taken as a universal truth.. when did this happen
  ^^ hits.
literally american economic policy, reading Molly Sauter's phd thesis on the topic h/o i'll get the link but short form the National Venture Capital Association was talking about Venture Capitalismb as an "Endangered species" in the 1970s
https://oddletters.com/doctoral-dissertation/ abstract on their site, you can click thru to the whole pdf
^ ( :โ€ข) thank  )  ^ ++ thank you

totally forgot that was pre-recorded omg
wait what happened with the microchip topic
did the video cu
yeh i think it did, right when they talked about microchip

also is there closed. captioning or a transcriber

Neta has stamina! zine-making for 2 nights in a row! lol it might be 102 nights in a row @mchapoarchive
hi Neta!! <3
hi y'alll it's neta <333
popping in to see what's good with the conf chat
thank you so much Neta!!! you're killing it
hi Mimi!!!

What a panel!!! 

hi Neta!! :D

what do you all wanna see in the zine? send me some ascii art <3333
ooo brb hand crafting a meme
OMG I am ready 
(>'.')>   <('.'<)  <('.')>
I see my mouse drawing <3
Art by Hayley Jane Wakenshaw

Hey Mimi, Allison and Ayo!!!! --DanS
   /   \
  (     )
      ) hjw
  I like how this one depicts a living mouse but the pose makes it kinda resemble a computer mouse too

                 _     __,..---""-._                 ';-,
          ,    _/_),-"`             '-.                `\\
         \|.-"`    -_)                 '.                ||
         /`   a   ,                      \              .'/
         '.___,__/                 .-'    \_        _.-'.'
            |\  \      \         /`        _`""""""`_.-'
               _/;--._, >        |   --.__/ `""""""`
             (((-'  __//`'-......-;\      )
                  (((-'       __//  '--. /
          jgs               (((-'    __//
jgs is prolific
  Art by Morfina
    /       / | 
   /______ /  /
  |___/___/  /
Ayo, Allison, and Mimi?!!! three of my favs <3333
^^^^^^^^^^^^ DITTO 
yes my painting in BG - thanks -ayo


more crochet!
Yooo yesterday Cy weaved around the mouse cord with some connecting sprigs of I think thyme? < Rosemary :)

Woot woot! Tandy TRS-80 in my house!
^^^^ me too!!! 

omg i went to an elementary school w/an apple iie lab, we used LOGO on them!

wow, allison just revealed so much about the fallability of memory. did anyone else remember using a mouse when actually there were no mice with their first cpu?

i have a really viv๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘id memory of spending hours changing all the system cursors (and sounds, and fonts) in windows 2000, which i assume was around when my parents decided i needed my own user account <---hahaha hmmm, i wonder if these things are connected... 

dang this has me missing my chunky tek
before my android time where i'd use skins to outfit it to look like an iPhone..... and what a nice hybrid, perhaps

Gen pre-mouse here
^ my first computer was a keyboard, an old black-and-white cathode-ray-tube TV, and programs that loaded through an audio cassette.

This idea of going to the neighbors' house to use the computer reminds me of one of my former advisors' stories about everyone in his Queens neighborhood gathering, in the 40s, at the home of the one family on the block that had a tv

I think all of my memories are more about the sensations of when the mouse didn't work, dusty, frustration^^ , clean, noo gotta respond in the chat, then when it was working smoooth

i remember everyone being super into mousemats and getting free mousemats or special editions from movies or magazines or musicians. i feel like mousemats these days are usually pretty plain and pastel? 
^^^ I talked about mouse pads in my talk yesterday. There's actually quite a big market in high-performance mousepads :)
^good to know!! i use a handheld mouse so kinda gutted i have no use for a mousemat haha
^ i see deskmats (like a mousemat but can also fit a keyboard) sold alongside mechanical keyboards a lot as aesthetic accessories! also functional of course, but makes the desk a prettier space
^^^ yes they definitely do serve these ordering / aesthetic functions - but for gamers deskpads serve to extend the "playing field" for gestures 
^ oh i do remember that from yesterday, yeah! deskmat as used for keyboard + mouse vs. deskmat as used for big empty space to move mouse/hand around is an interesting dichotomy
^^^ bring back mousemats printed with holographic island images
^ whoa this is cool
bring back mouse cursors of 2008?2006? does anyone rmb the glitter thread!?
^^ this is something i've been noodling on in my free time lol https://ephemeral-presence.glitch.me/
^YES. in the game hypnospace outlaw you can get some    pretty fun cursor trails. -hypnospace outlaw might genuinely be one of the best games i've ever played ngl.
i'm fairly certain i have a space jam mousemat hidden somewhere in the house
^^ highly recommend hypnospace outlaw!!! such a fun game (and excellent story) with that good good y2k internet aesthetic
--- omg i need to get on it! also i don't think the glitch link works :-(

I'm just saying: HI! I need to watch the recordings of all the talks later....Anyways, i'm done saying hello.

Before this ends - i'd just like to sasy THANK YOU - this has been spectacular and its so rare that TWO days of an event - online or offline - would be so conistently excellent! Huge congratsulations from afar! The ffort and love that has gone into this is so apparent to me as a distant viewer in a faraway timezone where the sun has just risen.

v interested in how Ayo and other speakers have used the mouse as a present-tense interaction with computers - between the proliferation of smartphones & laptops, the direct touch without the mouse is an order of magnitude more common, which feels even more impactful when talking about interactions with traumatic imagery +1

  feeling much gratitude towards everyone who put this together and participated and to all the mice of the world for connecting our intent to action. this conference was truly incredible! constantly calling into question how we understand and conceptualize technology and everything we interact with via any tool. I know I'll be visiting the archives and thinking about all these talks and conversations for a long time

i'd like to know what's on the dark side of the mouse

Given all the inter-species discussions over the past two days, it's also (maybe) interesting to think about the connections btw mouse clicks + clicker training in animal training 
^^^oh this is really thought provoking! 

who else pulled the ball out of the mouse and kept it as a precious object?
now i'm wondering what other marbles or little balls i could replace my trackball with. maybe a marble eye in its place? that could be cool and surreal  
^ this reminds me of a trackball (? what is it called) that i had on my Samsung phone once, the type that had a screen but required a stylus โ€” i remember the phone had a snowboarding game that i'd offer my classmates to play after class. 
omg yes. something about the construction of it feels like a nice secret almost
remeber that keyboard nipple thing? what was that!
!! LMAO TRULY and the range of motion was wild, like leaping over landscapes kind of
was it weirdly sensual or was it just me...
hhh not just you i think, the texture was perky in the most.. weird "i see you see me" kind of way 
YES thank you insta would censor it today #freethekeyboardnip

the mouse is one of the interactions that f

lips the most between embodiement and disembodiement for me - that is, the cursor is constrained by the screen even if the mouse keeps moving, and the mouse is constrained by the mouse pad, even if the cursor is not. i am constantly picking up and readjusting and its not at all like a musical instrument
( ^ ++ !!! maybe the mouse is like a soul; the cursor is the limitations of our physical bodies)

i have a handheld mouse so it's interesting to have constant contact with the mouse since i can't put it down! but i have had to learn how to type one-handed so that i can do both, and it's interesting how much i'm changing my computer use to accommodate the mouse itself

where are we all meeting up next thursday at 5pm???
ohh man .. i love you all dearly :'โ€ข) ++

according to the harvard implicit bias test, they can tell your anti-black bias from your mouse movements...who knows if they're right though

  one of the good things about teaching on zoom is the mouse pointer is still visible and i can use it to direct the gaze or focus / attention of the student 

my first memory of the mouse was fingering the red thinkpad nub and thinking, how strange!
^ + !
^same, my dad called it a nipple
^or a clitoris lmfao
^the roller ball ergonomic mouse is also very erotic to mi
asldasdf the psychosexual????????
^my mouse is the same shape as my vibrator (thank god this is anonymous)
ahahahahha PLS i appreciate your honesty alsdfklasf +1!!

ok wait i do want to note in the chat ~ for prosperity that Apple's mouse design definitely draws on the newly minimalist design of vibrators/similar toys? ?? is this a stretch?
^hmmmm!! -- they are both meant to be cupped by the palm
                  ^ Rez was a synesthesia videogame whose vibrator was very mouse-like called the Rez Trance Vibrator
    ^ oo ty

wiggle the mouse to keep the computer from falling asleep

how does the cursor feel when we are watching amovie and someone gets mad cuz it's "in the way" :(
^ the cursor wants to watch the movie too :(((

a question I have is what does the mosue see/does the mouse see when it's not there? like if you mostly interact with a touchpad/cursor? or by just tabbing? 

i hope musk doesn't become the signifier of brain-computer links they've been doing that for a while in labs
oh most definitely omg. im kind of ?? worried? (lmao i am almost perpetually worrired oh no) about the way his use of memes placates (?) people and establishes him like some "everyday man" 
          so many pioneers before him, some from NY - 3d volumetric society had one woman performing opera through nuero-link like stuff 

yeah i think it's a shame that people don't know about previous use of brain-computer links and how it can help patients with parkinsons. it's just become this hyped up 'omg elon musk brain control' discourse <>i stan for "meece"
ooooohhhh yes, meece

Axes: good/neutral/evil   /   lawful/neutral/chaotic?

^ yes ! i think drawing the lines can be a later thing lets doodle

     meeze  ?               meece                 mouses


              mice                  moose

      myce                    mauz                m4u535

* see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadmau5

quick collaborative compass in the chat (oh wow)
 ( ??????)
        mice  |    mouses
_________|_________ (????) 
mousesies |  meece
omg haha "mousesies"  

fuck musk >:(

Dorothy talked about media archaeology - which has so much to say about the history of this quesiton: how devices / technologies "leave the body" // John Durham Peters' Speaking Into the Air + Jeffrey Sconce's Haunted Media address these histories of spiritualism, automation as hauting, telepathy, etc. 

Histories of disability + technologies for accessibility also offer a lot to these questions re: neural interfaces, touchless control, etc. And this history far precedes the history of modern computing
+++++++++++ 100%
  (^ hauntology time?? haha jk...... unless?)

and the remains of the muscle memory of holding the mouse? of clicking? 
  i remember watching emma's lecture (performance) for the computer mouse research project and it had me wondering about whether the boundaries/ways we are in space need to be situated on such a binary way of thinking? or is it because these positive/negative space models are easy to understand, intuitive, that leads to a continued language of absolutes when we describe the way we interact with our tech?
(^ to elaborate.. like when we hold the mouse, does the mouse hold us or is it something.. more fluid?)

RSI !!!

mouse phrenology <:(

high-tech capitalism is so concerned with "frictionlessness" -- at what point do people crave some level of friction/texture?
"frictionlessness" i feel is also such a meme with the way Cody Ko mentioned it once in a video hhhaslkdfas
also like tap-payment with credit card is so "frictionless" meanwhile doing/paying taxes is absolutely covered in sandpaper
^ I want to print tax forms on sandpaper now

why dont mice have holes in the computer
  jerry from "tom and jerry" lives in a hole in the wall
  i wanna put the mouse in a hole when im done using it.
^i want the mouse to gnaw on my desk when i go to sleep
    ^^ + i want all of these

well that would damage ur desk no?? pesky mouse

  where does mouse sleep... does mouse get tired 
In a mouse house!
I've considered creating mouse houses with kids :)
^^def go back and check out Shannon Mattern's talk!!
^^ I missed it, back I'll check it out :)
^ nawwwwwwww 
a mouse can sleep in a drawer like this. mouse and keyboard house 
     ^ <3
^they curl up with each other
 5.25" desktop drawer, i think a mouse could fit in here. https://www.newegg.com/p/1W8-0063-00001

       ^^ more mouse houses; https://www.amazon.com/Mouse-House-build-homes-computer/dp/0140244417 
omg the mouse castle on the cover is amazing.
if anyone wants to see the actual book we have it at the cybernetics library (plug 2 aaaah): https://www.librarything.com/work/book/189034445
   ^^^ I wish I knew this last week ; I wanted to include scans in my talk yestereday! (shannon :) 
ah lol shannon i tweeted it in reply to your slides :p (David, who failed to give it to emma in time)
**** dammit - i missed that!!! 
^if you mean yesterday's talks, they are available on youtube already!

  โ”ƒโ”ƒโ•ฑโ•ฒ in
  โ”ƒโ•ฑโ•ฑโ•ฒโ•ฒ this
  โ–”โ–โ”—โ”›โ–•โ–” there
   lives a แ˜›โฬคแ•แท mouse
  โ•ฑโ•ฑโ”โ”ณโ”“โ•ญโ•ฎโ”โ”ณโ”“ โ•ฒโ•ฒ

   aaa i wish i were in NYC

curious if ayo has anything to say about proximity in time, proximity in space... re: the other hands the mouse has been in

For more on touch: I highly recommend Dave Parisi's book, Archaeologies of Touch: https://www.upress.umn.edu/book-division/books/archaeologies-of-touch
^thank you
^ + <3

Think it's also important to remember that mouse operations arent only about touch; the click is also about sound - even engineered, skeuomorphic sound. And *haptics* - which are the tactility of most electronics - are a combination of touch and sight
^ ohhh skeuomorphic sound. +

touching, re:touching... repair? care for? with our own hands??

allison, the foot pedal!! (your itp thesis)

shoutut from what allison said re: physicality of language to NETA and the PHYSICAL ZINE!~!~!

it's funny on some level to call every sense touch... touch itself is so many more than one sense (heat, friction, pain... the way your fingerprints have a haptic memory for objects) and also, I think touch is really proximal to pain! touch is a vulnerable sense (so is vision, so are all senses)

The chording mouse had six buttons and used two push "chords" to type leters

cmc chat how are we doing? -neta 

LOL, or perhaps Aargh: https://www.keymouse.com/index.php?id=1
^ the same sensation as seeing a dentist xray
Quick! Get under the Parachute! ( see lines around ~723 )

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        ,d8888888:                                                    888888b:88888888b,
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    ,d88888                                          <3                                   b:888888888b,
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i really want to find a good chorded keyboard/mouse combo, but the closest thing i've found is the 'twiddler' which is probs not in production anymore. i spent pretty much all day every day last summer looking for unusual accessible mouses! 
i'm planning on making a mouse out of fabric- does a mouse still make 'sense' in your brain if you can't hear the click or feel a button? what feedback do we need from the mouse in order to have that relationship.
whoa wait im not trying to force this onto your idea but im imagining a wooden mechanism locking into place, or the feeling of a knot being tied, instead of the mechanical click โ€” that could be something to explore .. i think if we build our own mediators/portals we can reimagine tech itself
^ I was imaging a giant ball on the floor you roll around to move the mouse, and then a pedal on the table you click with
^ ohhh ohhhh <3 what if using/interfacing (with) the mouse were a full body experience that was at times still, during others full of movement? thinking of weaving
^ coordinated spin class/exercise to operate the mouse XD
 ^ YES THOUGH hahah ive been returning to those parachute games id play as a kid in kindergarten/preschool where we'd hurry to gather under the rainbow parachute blanket (i hope this makes sense/brings to your mind an image) .. i just.... love that feeling.
^I rememebr them :D  :'โ€ข)
i miss the parachutes. what a weird time that was! who invented that and what for?! the bit where you run under and meet ppl in the middle was always so special.
aaah yes, it's everything and everything more.. like picture books of mushrooms and lily pads as umbrellas for more than one
!? i was looking them up on ebay or etsy and there doesnt seem to be an agreed upon definition? like those bubbles at water parks
  (big parachute)
    made a parachute above^^
i constantly look at objects and think 'what if that were a mouse' since i started my fabric mouse project lol
^ yes +++ the analogue/digital metaphors 

love to explore more embodiment in interfaces. small possible experiments:
 adding friction to ballmousies. 
 mice that grab your hand, instead of your hand grabbing the mouse
 mouse used with your hand facing upwards instead of downwards
      an outstretched palm, an invitation ^ ++

Love Mimi's question about other ways of knowing. I think Zeynep Celik Alexander's Kinaesthetic Knowing is great on this topic: https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/K/bo27315291.html
^her work is great, though i haven't seen this specific book. however looking at contents it goes through a pretty canon set of modernist examples, i'd be curious how it branches to what mimi was pointing out about other cultural forms of knowledge that happen through embodied practices
^^ very true: she notes the focus on modern design in her subtitle! 

webcam/camera conference? kinda creepy
^ i'm sure people have lots to say about webcams though after a year+ in virtual meetings, etc.!
 ^^ ive been thinking of my webcam as the green eye in the great gatsby.. what is it with individual senses with these specific devices..
^^^ fascinating!!
   ^ (hh thanks, i made a p5 sketch for it but wanna keep it anon hmm lemme see if i can get the code out there somehow)
thats super cool hope i come across on the internet somehow
                                          :โ€ข) <3
love that this is anon
     fr tho i cant even begin to imagine that idea in p5 but yea :) 

printer conference (thinking already of the "tiny printer club" offshoot from a talk at last year's !!con)
^ ++++
abolish the printer industrial complex!!!! haven't we paid enough for ink
have any of you looked into (i forget if this is it) mimeographs?? like lowtech printing/postermaking? i dont own a typewriter but gaah wish i could build somehow
^ nyc public schools had them in the 80s/early90s 
^ whoa sdfasfdasldf 
^^ :00000

microphone conference?  
^ reminds me of Laura Devendorf's talk about microphones & hammers at Acadia 2020.
    ^ um WOW her work looks amazing
^ very much so!

keyboard conference hell yeahhh (but would probs be too entwined with linguistics and quickly become too broad maybe? or not)
^ QWERTY + typewriter history could be something to fold into this maybe, personaly hoping for a discussion about the flattening/ever reducing key heights in laptops โ€” it's gaining that "frictionless" flair now :โ€ข/

earlier mention in chat of ammassalik coastal maps (the amazing wood carved tactile maps... 

I cant believe i have to go right now... this is so fascinating. see you all around!!! -- galen
   bye galen! have a wonderful weekend!

embodied/situated cognition is a topic that has impacted HCI for a while -- Lucy Suchman did a lot of work to shift HCI from formal prepositional language models to embodied relations (her book "Plans and Situated Actions" is nerdy but cool.) lots of overlap with cognitive science.
  ^ + thank you for this recommendation !!

Could this conference be about something other than the computer mouse?
Could this be a reading of a different tarot card? (different card, same methodology)
Could we gather around a different campfire together?
^ web art jam memories about campfires.. ++

certain keys? (command, shift, enter/return) ALT, option
entering + returning is interesting, the dissonance

"command/control"โ€” technomilitaristic tone, "launchpad," "mission control" but also universalized language like "Pages," "Spaces"

lol i don't think emma or ashley saw the collaborative alignment chart on the correct plural lol (somewhere above in the chat) hh ++

Mouse improvisations
  mouseseseses <3 
watch out for meos <.<
may summon the meow makers
the predator or mousessssses

i'm here for the cartridges conference!!! shoutout to the nintendo switch for bringing it back
  ^ +
    ^ shoutout to the inventor Jerry Lawson
e-ink conference?? or am i trying to make digital interfaces feel like newsprint..
"the mouse and its limits"
ramps to interface and interaction...

shoutout to the cybernetics conference 2017

something really unique is the animal/input device duality. I think so many of the talks brought in such interesting diversity because of it. "mic" or "keyboard" or even joystick doesnt have such a ready 

misc notes here maybe: trackpad (in the macOS context) โ€” lightness of this language 
shots fired ayo!!!! prove emma wrong. i believe in the joystick conference

ALLISON ABSOLUTELY GUTTED hahahahahahaha here for it!!!!

saaaaame allison hell yeah

imagining the conference class final that's multiple conferences happening at the same time with people, presenters and audeince moving across them
something about asynchronicity and making with different notions and lived experiences of time.. no more fomo
^^i have been in multiple work meetings all day while listening to the conference too so this is a mood haha
^ (the 5 minute lag is quite nice i feel, a little jarring but kind of neat haha)

just a thought, late at night i sometimes look at the mouse sensor for a few seconds, just acknowledging it. after this conference i now realize its looking back O_O
ohhhh brother 

ctrl/cmd+b -> bolds

question โ€” what kinds of interface metaphors would you like to work with more? (how do you feel about nostalgic interfaces)

wandcon! Cy's showing the mouse as a wand was great << +++++1
^ +1
question -- how long until the mouse is a "pointing icon" like the floppy disk has been forgotten and renamed by the young youths. 10 years over/under?

question - what would a low-click diet look like?
^ <3 <3 <3 +

(notes... what does the mouse really mean to us? what is it precisely that we are "pointing to," getting at?)
rather than bodily models, what more

question - what does the touchscreen feel, and how is that same/different than what the mouse sees?
great q -- touchscreen has no path for one thing
^ natural vs "unnatural" scrolling direction feels odd when you're using both trackpad and the mouse 
^ ++ the assumption of linearity as the default no more
^ there was a quote from yesterday of Paper's ability to Deflect, and glass only being able to Reflect and that stuck with me ...
^and also makes me think of how to then diffract? 

question - is the physical traditional mouse going to make a trendy comeback in the future? 

<3 thank you all โ€” speakers, organizers, fellow mouse/meecefolk in the chat โ€” this has been so incredibly affirming for me personally; to know that such small gestures and grains of meaning are being considered by so many is so refreshing and ++ much love. 

i have to bounce but thank you all SO so much for this conference!!! one of my favorite quarantine experiences (and one of my favorite conference experiences in general)! much love! <3

really caught a spark from Mimi's positioning of seemingly marginalized people being at the center -- it's that invisibil-izing done by power, of labor, especially by black+brown folks and women, upon which the hierarchy is propped.

thank you so much, this has been amazing!!!!!
thank you all for the wonderful energy and sharing your time and thoughts, thank you organizers, speakers, and chat! AND NETA! 

thank you all very much, i've had a truly great time here over the last few days -- leaving this time inspired and driven. honestly, this is a rare feeling these days and i *cherish it*. congratulations to all the speakers, presenters, zine makers, hosts, everyone. till next year - everest

thank you all sooooo so so much! this is one of the best conference experiences i've ever had and so incredibly thought provoking and inspiring. love all my anonymous chat friends. massive shout out to neta as well <3

i've been in and out of tech/art/activism conferences for 20 years and this has been the most inspiring I've been to since the first. Such a good job. Thank you!


Thank you all, this has been the best online experience!! Sad it is ending. <3 <3 <3

Thank you so much for an amazing event! Made my week
  Thank you so much everyone, this was inspiring and productive and so well put together! (I want this chat to exist everywhere I go on the internet!)
  thank you all for a fantastic conference!! 

Such an incredible experience! Thank you, Ayo, Mimi, and Allison. :)

CONGRATS EMMA AND ASHLEY!!!! WOOHOO!!!!! You did it! So proud of you for putting such an incredible experience together. Mad love to CultureHub! <3<3<3

NETA is EPIC! <3 OMGAAAAH. SO SO SO GREAT! Like, I can't even describe all she did. So amazing! 
^ +1

Thank you Ashley & Emma for such brilliant event!!! 
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is this going to be archived anywhere bc i missed all of yesterday but i am v interested ๐Ÿ‘€๐Ÿ‘€๐Ÿ‘€๐Ÿ‘€ youtube ?
^believe so
 i can offer my otter.ai premium subscruption to create captions / transcribe the recorded archive if u make one (i am anastasia )

HECK yES <3 <3 <3 ๐Ÿคชโค๏ธโค๏ธ๐Ÿคช๐Ÿคช
so excited to keep coming to this conferences archive as a resource THIS IS SO AMAZING!!! 
Thank You!!! such a beautiful, moving, inspiring experience here <3
i Randomly found out about the computer mouse conference via coding train livestream and i FREAKed out bc i LOVE computer mousTe
thank you soooo much <3!!

thank u everyone <3 neta

Presented by:


CultureHub is a global art and technology community that was born out of decades of collaboration between La MaMa and the Seoul Institute of the Arts, Koreaโ€™s first contemporary performing arts school. These two pioneering institutions sought to explore how the internet and digital technologies could foster a more sustainable model for international exchange and creativity.

Now in its 11th year, CultureHub has grown into a global network with studios in New York, Los Angeles, Korea, Indonesia, and Italy, providing connected environments for artists to critically examine our evolving relationship to technology. Through residencies, live productions, and educational programming, CultureHub advances the work of artists experimenting with emerging technologies in search of new artistic forms. CultureHub builds new partnerships that expand our network and provide increased access to online and offline platforms that fuel artist mobility, create opportunities for cultural exchange, and broaden human understanding through the convergence of art, technology, and education.

The 2021 CMC is supported by:

~ Welcome to the Computer Mouse Conference 2021 [ARCHIVE]~